Ken: Thanks such to have discussing your pursuit with our team

Thank you for the newest estimate that we had not viewed in advance of

I’m not sure if you had access to Douglas Richardson’s Plantagnet Ancestry or perhaps not, since it is composed given that a resource for Us citizens having colonial ancestors out of Plantagenet ancestry. The guy offers as one of his proofs you to definitely Joanna is the newest mommy regarding Gwladus Ddu the truth that Llewelyn gave the newest characteristics off Knighton and Norton castles for the Shropshire so you’re able to Ralph Mortimer when the guy and you will Gwladus had been hitched. It might have been unlawful to possess Llewelyn provide Joanna’s possessions so you can an illegitimate daughter (or individual who was not a baby off Joanna). The newest characteristics out of Norton and Knighton stayed from the Mortimer family after that. The quotation is actually, “If the fresh King give Belongings so you can a person with a good lady of their kindred when you look at the frank wedding, therefore the lady dyeth in the place of point, the guy regarding Kings case shall perhaps not hold it to have their lifestyle, since the woman caused the the fresh present.” To put it differently, the fresh new functions could have reverted back to the fresh top just before it would-have-been made available to a child who was maybe not Joanna’s.

Hello, Marilyn, I didn’t have access to the fresh new Plantaganet Origins from the Doug Richardson, but did have access to the numerous talks involving him and you may their concepts together with other genealogists (some for your, however, many as well as facing). I think, once i stated in my personal earlier paper, you to definitely exactly what shifts it for me personally(Joanna as the mommy out of Gwladus), is the transfer of functions you discuss in order to Ralph de Mortimer up on his ed two of their pupils ‘John’ and you can ‘Joan.’ I can not suppose in the event the Gwladus was actually the brand new ded their particular students for this reason. Regardless of the arguments amongst the eminent genealogists We mention more than, there is a standard opinion you to definitely Gwladus Ddu would be reasonably identified as the newest daughter off Llywelyn abdominal Iorwerth by Joanna, child (then legitimised) regarding John, Queen off The united kingdomt. I would ike to capture this chance to go along with Sharon (in an email if you ask me) you to Llywelyn’s child Gwenllian is actually from the Tangwystyl and never Joanna, and thus getting bloodstream aunt to Gruffudd. We feet which partly on today’s record found in ‘Regal or any other Historic emails Illustrative of reign regarding Henry 111,’ edited because of the Rev. Walter W. Shirley, vol step one. On the pages five hundred-503 ‘s the transcript out-of an original page dated Marshall, Earl out of Pembroke, so you’re able to Queen Henry 111. Inside letter, Marshall talks about his siege of the castles of Crum, Kilmore and you may O’Realy. The guy listings individuals he found in the castle O’Realy whenever they surrendered, they included: “…uxor Wilelmi de- Lascy, filia Leulini, soror Griffini de patre mais aussi matre, mais aussi uxor Thomae Blund fratis dicti Willelmi, ainsi que mater dictorum Willelmi et Thomae ….” I’m told that this implies that i have here Gwenllian, child off Prince llywelyn, just who is apparently entitled ‘sister from Gruffudd.’ As we know Gruffudd become the fresh new illegitimate child from Llywelyn, it’s pulled that ‘de patre mais aussi matre’ means Gwenllian and you can Gruffudd had been full bloodstream sis and you can sibling. Got Gwenllian come Joanna’s daughter hence Queen Henry’s niece, positively Marshall could have said on that facts? This inability of de Lacy’s wife since king’s relative, are pulled as close certain facts you to Gwenllian wasn’t the fresh new daughter of the king’s sister Joanna.

Such services was part of Joanna’s maritagium of their unique dad Queen John

Ken: Thank you for you to reference to Gwenllian. I am definitely not a specialist genealogist, but I do a number of lookup on my own traces. I think a number of the “pros” are really envious and you can angry of any most other (about obviously method in some of all things they article). You’ll find items that our company is not browsing discover with full confidence throughout the people in the latest MA as they don’t keep public information eg i perform today, thus genealogists and historians have to use their utmost wisdom inside the sorting one thing away. In reality, vital records is a pretty “new” design – of several says within the us don’t keep facts regarding births and deaths until the early 1900’s. I end up in multiple lineage societies in which I have had to help you prove eleven otherwise 12 generations, and you may believe me it is hard. Therefore i extremely take pleasure in the trouble out of researching MA forefathers. (Therefore the sad question is that the info that exist for the MA was of one’s royalty and you can nobility – nothing anyway into the popular people).